Narcissists can be arrogant, self-aggrandizing, and
manipulative. But what's it like to have narcissistic
personality disorder? And how can it be treated? Guests include
Dr. Jeffrey Young, the founder and director of the Schema
Therapy Institute of New York and the Cognitive Therapy Centers of New
York and Connecticut and co-author of "Reinventing Your Life";
Sandy Hotchkiss, a licensed clinical social worker and
the author of "Why is it Always About You? The Seven Deadly Sins of
Narcissism"; Dr. Corinne Pache, an assistant professor of
classics at Yale University and a fellow at Harvard University's
Center for Hellenic Studies in Washington D.C., who talks about the
myth of Narcissus and Echo; poet Tony Hoagland, whose latest
collection is called "What Narcissism Means to Me"; and Samuel Vaknin,
who has been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and has
written extensively about the topic.
Host Dr. Fred Goodwin begins with an essay in which he
says he has always been fascinated by the boundary between healthy
narcissism and narcissism as a disorder. In his world of medical
research, it's not uncommon to hear some colleagues at the top of
their game described by other colleagues as narcissistic. The label is
generally meant to be pejorative (and might also reflect some envy),
but he doubts that it always actually translates into narcissistic
personality disorder. From time to time, he says, a colleague that he
knows quite well is described as narcissistic. And yet those who work
closely with him will often describe him as generous and supportive,
in other words capable of empathy - which is lacking in the true
narcissist. Dr. Goodwin believes the ability to empathize is what
really distinguishes healthy narcissism from a personality disorder,
and it's important to remember empathy is not always visible from a
distance.
Then
Dr. Goodwin interviews Samuel
Vaknin. After receiving a diagnosis of narcissistic
personality disorder, Vaknin devoted himself to understanding the
disorder and offering advice to others with it. He is the author of
"Malignant Self-Love - Narcissism Revisited," and he runs, moderates,
and contributes to several websites devoted to narcissistic
personality disorder -- all of which, he readily admits, contributes
the "narcissisistic supply" he craves.
Vaknin, who lives in Skopje, Macedonia was interviewed by phone
from Italy, where he was on vacation. He says the disorder affects
every aspect of his life, from work to interpersonal relationships to
sexual relations. He has been diagnosed twice, once after a
relationship ended badly and again in an Israeli prison where he was
incarcerated for securities offenses. He says it is not uncommon for
narcissists to see themselves as above the law. They believe they
deserve special treatment and do not understand other people's
feelings or needs, he says, laeding to antisocial behavior.
Vaknin
then says he has no sense of his own self-worth. He needs other people
to tell him what he's worth, and he therefore seeks constant
admiration. Dr. Goodwin asks him if he feels he is special, and he
says it's not a matter of feeling -- there is no distance between
himself and that conviction -- it's more like "knowing" he's special.
He admits that, if he is criticized, he is likely to erupt into rage,
because his overriding sense of superiority has been
challenged.
Then,
Dr. Goodwin interviews psychologist Dr. Jeffrey
Young, who has developed a new treatment for personality
disorders, combining elements of cognitive, behavioral, object
relations, and gestalt therapy. Dr. Young is the founder and director
of the Schema Therapy Institute of New York and the Cognitive Therapy
Centers of New York and Connecticut. He's also teaches in the
psychiatry department at Columbia University, and is the co-author of
"Reinventing Your Life."
Dr.
Young begins by saying that the major characteristics of narcissistic
personality disorder are seeing oneself as special, acting entitled,
believing one should have whatever one wants, regardless of the
feelings of others, and inflating oneself while putting others down.
However, for people who actually have the disorder, the narcissism is
a facade, a coping mechanism to deal with underlying feelings of
loneliness and defectiveness. If they are challenged or criticized,
they often react with rage because their self-image has been deflated.
Then, their shame will often come to the surface and they can feel
horrible about themselves.
Dr.
Young then explains the difference between healthy and unhealthy
narcissism. Healthy narcissism is having a sense of your basic rights
-- for example, not allowing someone to cut in front of you in line,
or even feeling proud of your accomplishments and not hiding them.
Unhealthy narcissism is becoming obsessed with having people think you
are special, and not just having a sense of your own rights, but not
caring at all about the rights of others.
Since
narcissists have difficulty admitting weakness, they usually do not
seek treatment unless they have been deflated in some way, for
example, if they are threatened with divorce of the loss of a job.
Often, Dr. Young says, the only way to get a narcissist into treatment
is with an ultimatum.
Dr.
Young has developed a form of treatment for personality disorders
called schema therapy. It is based on the idea that we all have
different personality modes, or parts of the self (angry, easygoing,
focused, carefree, etc.). For people with personality disorders, these
modes are much more extreme, some are dysfunctional, and it is
difficult to move flexibly from one mode to another. He says most
people with narcissistic personality disorder have three dominant
modes -- the self-aggrandizing, entitled mode (which is what people
see as narcissism), the shamed or lonely child mode (which is the
underlying sadness and isolation), and the self-soothing or
self-stimulating mode (when alone, to avoid feeling "the lonely
child," they will often engage in activities like gambling, compulsive
sex or speculative investing to distract themselves from their more
vulnerable side).
In
therapy, directly addressing the narcissistic behavior generally
doesn't work, so Dr. Young tries to engage "the lonely, shamed child,"
since that is the part of the person that is in pain. He does this by
looking for any example of narcissistic behavior and then, rather than
criticizing it, focusing on why the person is acting that way.
The hope is to have the person acknowledge that he can feel
vulnerable, he doesn't always feel good or think he's "the best," and
in this way get him to understand his compensatory behavior. Dr. Young
says that, of the people who stay in therapy, he is able to help the
vast majority. However, as with any therapy for narcissists, unless
the therapist spends the sessions telling the patients they're the
best, many will leave early.
To
contact Dr. Young, please write to: Dr. Jeffrey Young, Director,
Schema Therapy Institute, 36 West 44th Street, Suite 1007, New York,
NY 10036. Or visit http://www.schematherapy.com
The
word "narcissism" derives from the name of the mythological character,
Narcissus, who fell in love with his own reflection. The myth was made
famous by the Roman poet Ovid, who created a story of great beauty and
psychological complexity. Dr. Goodwin's next guest is Dr. Corinne Pache, an assistant professor of
classics at Yale University. She is currently a fellow at Harvard
University's Center for Hellenic Studies in Washington DC, where she
is working on a project on "Divine Desire."
Dr.
Pache begins by telling the story of Narcissus and Echo, the nymph who
fell in love with him and was rejected. She says that the ancients
were very suspicious of the extremes of love, and this myth served as
something of a cautionary tale. Narcissus is at one extreme -- he is
only able to love himself. Echo represents the other extreme -- she,
who can only repeat what others say, loses herself completely in the
object of her love and has no sense of self at all. This is perfectly
represented in a passage in which Ovid writes that Narcissus tells
Echo, "I would die before I give you power over me," and Echo answers
back repeating his last words, "I give you power over me." Both end up
dying because their love is unattainable. Dr. Pache says the lesson
still holds for today -- many of us have great difficulty finding a
healthy balance between self and other.
To
contact Dr. Pache, please write to: Dr. Corinne Pache, Assistant
Professor of Classics, Yale University, Department of Classics, P.O.
Box 208266, 344 College Street, New Haven CT 06520-8266. Or visit:
http://www.yale.edu/ or http://www.chs.harvard.edu
Having
a spouse, parent or even a boss who is a narcissist can have profound
and even devastating effects. After a short break, we hear a
first-hand account. Given the personal nature of the story this wife
shares, she asked us not to mention her name. She has been married for
34 years, but noticed a problem with the relationship very early on.
Her husband insisted that everything go his way and that she be
subservient to him. He accepted nothing but adherence to his vision of
how their lives and their relationship should be. When she did stand
up for herself, he would sometimes become physically abusive. She says
all this left her feeling out of control, small, lonely, sad, and
angry. She says she was left with little self-esteem and did not leave
her husband because she feared being alone.
How do
you handle the narcissist in YOUR life? Dr. Goodwin is then joined by
Sandy Hotchkiss, the author of "Why
is it Always About You? The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism."
Hotchkiss is a licensed clinical social worker with a private practice
in individual, couples and family therapy in Pasadena,
California.
Dr.
Goodwin begins by asking Ms. Hotchkiss how people can tell if their
boss or spouse or parent is a true narcissist and not just a bit
self-involved or self-absorbed. She answers that you can tell by the
way they make you fee. They will generally make you feel as if you
don't exist unless you are in service to them. She also says they are
likely to inflate you to bask in your glow. This can be very seductive
to some people, but the inflation never lasts -- you are also likely
to be exploited and deflated. Narcissists tend to be attracted to one
of two types of people -- those they admire (the super-model or
corporate leader) or those who admire them. An exciting, fantasy
romance can be possible at the beginning of relationships, but, since
untreated narcissists do not have the capacity for empathy, they will
probably not be there for their partners, unless it suits their own
needs.
Ms.
Hotchkiss then describes the narcissistic parent, who, she says, is
fundamentally incapable of recognizing the child as separate from
himself or herself. The child grows up to be acutely attuned to what
the parent needs from him or her. They often become stunted in some
way in the development of their own self and can be magnets for other
narcissists, since they are so good at meeting other people's needs
(they can also grow up to be narcissists, themselves, if part of what
the parent needed was a mirror for his or her own narcissism). She
says that it is possible for an adult child to develop a compassionate
relationship with a narcissistic parent, but only if the parent is not
that toxic and the child recognizes the reality of the situation,
grieves the loss of the parent he or she never had, and develops
reciprocal relationships with other people in his or her
life.
Finally, Ms. Hotchkiss talks about the narcissistic boss. Since
narcissists crave power, many rise to positions of great authority,
where they create an environment in which their employees are
exploited in the service of their dream. In all relationships with
narcissists, power is key, and often you can improve your situation
with a narcissist by accurately assessing the power balance and
changing your own behavior. However, if your boss is a narcissist, you
are actually in a position of limited power, and this can be very
difficult. She says that if you really are stuck and cannot change
jobs, the best you can do is create a "work persona" that you know is
not you. The persona may get abused and exploited, but you must leave
it at the office, and work on having a real life outside of your
job.
To
contact Ms. Hotchkiss, please write to: Sandy Hotchkiss, 275 E.
California Blvd, Suite J, Pasadena, CA 91106.
To
order "Why is it Always About You? The Seven Deadly Sins of
Narcissism," click
here.
Next,
The Infinite Mind's Marit Haahr
speaks with poet Tony
Hoagland, whose latest collection -- "What Narcissism Means
to Me" -- explores the narcissism in all of us. His previous works
include "Donkey Gospel," which won the James Laughlin Award of The
Academy of American Poets, and "Sweet Ruin," which won the Brittingham
Prize in Poetry.
Hoagland begins by reading his book's title poem, "What
Narcissism Means to Me." It begins:
There's Socialism and Communism and Capitalism,
said
Neal,
and there's Feminism and
Hedonism,
and
there's Capitalism and Bipedalism and
Consumerism,
but
I think Narcissism is the system
that means the most to
me...
Hoagland then says he believes American culture encourages
self-involvement to a degree that makes it difficult for us to pay
attention to anything but ourselves. He says our self-preoccupation is
endlessly promoted and indulged by a consumer culture. Even the great
American philosophers of self-reliance and self-sufficiency, people
like Whitman and Emerson, have been co-opted in the service of car
commercials (i.e. "March to the beat of a different drummer. Drive a
Lexus."). With so many opportunities for self-gratification, it's
difficult to know our own size in the world.
To
order "What Narcissism Means to Me," click
here.
Finally, commentator John Hockenberry looks at narcissism
and politics. He says, "Narcissism IS politics in America. What else
can the world possibly think listening to our political rhetoric...
the constant invocations of being the greatest nation on earth, the
greatest people, the pinnacle of civilization, the divine custodians
of all that is moral and free in the world?"
- Marit Haahr
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